Comments on: Event Filmmaking + Event Photography = Convergence http://blog.davidrobinfilms.com/2009/11/04/event-filmmaking-event-photography-convergence/ David Robin's experience and activity in the Wedding & Event Videography industry. Fri, 19 Feb 2010 18:51:04 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9 hourly 1 By: eric kmetz http://blog.davidrobinfilms.com/2009/11/04/event-filmmaking-event-photography-convergence/comment-page-1/#comment-52051 eric kmetz Wed, 11 Nov 2009 20:53:05 +0000 http://blog.davidrobinfilms.com/?p=638#comment-52051 David- I agree with you, in that collaboration is key in order to succeed and to grow. This is especially true if it's someone's hope to expand into new, uncharted territories such as this. I recently experienced this as I was using our 5d to try and shoot some stills at a networking event. I threw on a 580ex and starting snapping away. I look at my first batch of photos and they looked terrible! I couldn't quite figure out how to take full advantage of the flash and I was puzzled by how different the images were coming out using the same settings I had used for video. The next day I had a shoot with a photographer who I've worked with on several occasions and have a strong working relationship with. I explained the story to her, asked for a few tips and she was happy to help. I took that advice and applied it the next time I was shooting photos, and it made all the difference. Long story short, I've only been in this industry a short time but it's already pretty clear to me that the animosity between photogs and filmmakers isn't helping anyone. By working with each other, and developing a RELATIONSHIP with every photographer you work with will only end up helping both in the long run and can only help advance our industry further. David-
I agree with you, in that collaboration is key in order to succeed and to grow. This is especially true if it’s someone’s hope to expand into new, uncharted territories such as this. I recently experienced this as I was using our 5d to try and shoot some stills at a networking event. I threw on a 580ex and starting snapping away. I look at my first batch of photos and they looked terrible! I couldn’t quite figure out how to take full advantage of the flash and I was puzzled by how different the images were coming out using the same settings I had used for video.
The next day I had a shoot with a photographer who I’ve worked with on several occasions and have a strong working relationship with. I explained the story to her, asked for a few tips and she was happy to help. I took that advice and applied it the next time I was shooting photos, and it made all the difference.

Long story short, I’ve only been in this industry a short time but it’s already pretty clear to me that the animosity between photogs and filmmakers isn’t helping anyone. By working with each other, and developing a RELATIONSHIP with every photographer you work with will only end up helping both in the long run and can only help advance our industry further.

]]> By: Ron Risman http://blog.davidrobinfilms.com/2009/11/04/event-filmmaking-event-photography-convergence/comment-page-1/#comment-52050 Ron Risman Thu, 05 Nov 2009 19:54:48 +0000 http://blog.davidrobinfilms.com/?p=638#comment-52050 Hi David - I completely agree. I decided to write about my situation in hopes that my stupidity in trying to do both would act as a 'warning' to others who my be thinking they can do it. You can't. I won't go as far as to say that you can't be a filmmaker and a photographer. You surely can, but it takes devotion, training, and of course picking one - or the other - for a particular event. Hi David – I completely agree. I decided to write about my situation in hopes that my stupidity in trying to do both would act as a ‘warning’ to others who my be thinking they can do it. You can’t. I won’t go as far as to say that you can’t be a filmmaker and a photographer. You surely can, but it takes devotion, training, and of course picking one – or the other – for a particular event.

]]> By: Nelson Nunez http://blog.davidrobinfilms.com/2009/11/04/event-filmmaking-event-photography-convergence/comment-page-1/#comment-52049 Nelson Nunez Thu, 05 Nov 2009 19:07:08 +0000 http://blog.davidrobinfilms.com/?p=638#comment-52049 Hi David, this is a great read, lots of insight. I do know about the RED Maxim shoot. When people start shooting weddings/events with the RED, I'd like to see an updated blog about this! Obviously, you'll have all the pixels you'll need for great prints. That's when I think this "convergence" will be a huge topic! By the way, where can one find this video that this top photographer posted? I'm very curious to see it. Hi David, this is a great read, lots of insight.

I do know about the RED Maxim shoot. When people start shooting weddings/events with the RED, I’d like to see an updated blog about this! Obviously, you’ll have all the pixels you’ll need for great prints. That’s when I think this “convergence” will be a huge topic!

By the way, where can one find this video that this top photographer posted? I’m very curious to see it.

]]> By: Steve Moses http://blog.davidrobinfilms.com/2009/11/04/event-filmmaking-event-photography-convergence/comment-page-1/#comment-52048 Steve Moses Thu, 05 Nov 2009 15:18:50 +0000 http://blog.davidrobinfilms.com/?p=638#comment-52048 Mr. Robin, good point and well thought out. I hope you are right in your views of the outcome of this "convergence", good phrase; I’m so tired of fusion. I was with you at WPPI and felt the reluctance and excitement of this. The ones I talked to showed minor interest in it. As we all know this has been a tough year for us all, photographers included. When things return to normal they might put this back on their plate and re-consider it. As far as Kenny's remarks, if I started offering photography I think my photographer friends would still refer me, as long as they have already signed a contract with them. The reason? The photographer will expect referrals for photography from us when we can’t accommodate it. This entire industry boils down to referrals, keep them flowing and all is good. Mr. Robin, good point and well thought out. I hope you are right in your views of the outcome of this “convergence”, good phrase; I’m so tired of fusion. I was with you at WPPI and felt the reluctance and excitement of this. The ones I talked to showed minor interest in it. As we all know this has been a tough year for us all, photographers included. When things return to normal they might put this back on their plate and re-consider it.

As far as Kenny’s remarks, if I started offering photography I think my photographer friends would still refer me, as long as they have already signed a contract with them. The reason? The photographer will expect referrals for photography from us when we can’t accommodate it. This entire industry boils down to referrals, keep them flowing and all is good.

]]> By: David Robin http://blog.davidrobinfilms.com/2009/11/04/event-filmmaking-event-photography-convergence/comment-page-1/#comment-52046 David Robin Thu, 05 Nov 2009 07:37:36 +0000 http://blog.davidrobinfilms.com/?p=638#comment-52046 Ron, thanks for leaving a comment but I think you are missing the point here. I am recommending that photographers do what they do best, and collaborate with an event filmmaker. Or go out and get educated in filmmaking. Trying to do both with the same camera on the event day is completely ridiculous. Why did you try that? I don't care how talented you might be. You have just reinforced my point that photographers need to get educated if they want to try and shoot moving images! Choose your focus. One or the other! Ron, thanks for leaving a comment but I think you are missing the point here. I am recommending that photographers do what they do best, and collaborate with an event filmmaker. Or go out and get educated in filmmaking.

Trying to do both with the same camera on the event day is completely ridiculous. Why did you try that? I don’t care how talented you might be. You have just reinforced my point that photographers need to get educated if they want to try and shoot moving images! Choose your focus. One or the other!

]]> By: Ron Risman http://blog.davidrobinfilms.com/2009/11/04/event-filmmaking-event-photography-convergence/comment-page-1/#comment-52045 Ron Risman Thu, 05 Nov 2009 07:14:59 +0000 http://blog.davidrobinfilms.com/?p=638#comment-52045 I had a situation this year where I was hired to second shoot a wedding as a photographer and was also hired by the same couple to create a wedding film. They hired me to capture video based on the recommendation of the photographer. I had no intentions of doing both since there was a conflict of interest, but the photographer re-assured me that she wouldn't have a problem with it. So I decided to give it a try. I figured it would put this whole idea of fusion to the test. What I ultimately discovered is that just because the same camera can do both, doesn't mean the same camera setup can do both or that the same photographer should do both. Not only are there special moments that force a decision - stills or video - there are also different lighting situations, camera settings, and lens choices that just don't work for both - especially in lower lighting. When shooting video at the reception I wanted the camera to have an attached LED video light and an external microphone for sound. For stills I wanted the same camera to have my 550Ex in the hot-shoe instead of a continuous light source and my choice of shutter speeds and aperture would need to be different to reflect the addition of the speedlight. Bouncing back and forth is nearly impossible, at least in lower-light situations. It ended up being the most frustrating day of shooting I have ever had, and I will never agree to do both again. I did end up with some great footage and decent stills - but what I captured for stills was only acceptable because I was second shooting. From a usability standpoint, it is great to have a camera that can do both. But the reality is you'd have to be a fool to attempt it. If you were being hired strictly as a photographer then you could definitely use the dual nature of these cameras to capture some video throughout the day to help enhance your slideshow and surprise your client - or vice versa. This is where I think Fusion is best used. As a supplement to what you already do. I had a situation this year where I was hired to second shoot a wedding as a photographer and was also hired by the same couple to create a wedding film. They hired me to capture video based on the recommendation of the photographer. I had no intentions of doing both since there was a conflict of interest, but the photographer re-assured me that she wouldn’t have a problem with it. So I decided to give it a try. I figured it would put this whole idea of fusion to the test.

What I ultimately discovered is that just because the same camera can do both, doesn’t mean the same camera setup can do both or that the same photographer should do both. Not only are there special moments that force a decision – stills or video – there are also different lighting situations, camera settings, and lens choices that just don’t work for both – especially in lower lighting.

When shooting video at the reception I wanted the camera to have an attached LED video light and an external microphone for sound. For stills I wanted the same camera to have my 550Ex in the hot-shoe instead of a continuous light source and my choice of shutter speeds and aperture would need to be different to reflect the addition of the speedlight. Bouncing back and forth is nearly impossible, at least in lower-light situations.

It ended up being the most frustrating day of shooting I have ever had, and I will never agree to do both again. I did end up with some great footage and decent stills – but what I captured for stills was only acceptable because I was second shooting.

From a usability standpoint, it is great to have a camera that can do both. But the reality is you’d have to be a fool to attempt it.

If you were being hired strictly as a photographer then you could definitely use the dual nature of these cameras to capture some video throughout the day to help enhance your slideshow and surprise your client – or vice versa. This is where I think Fusion is best used. As a supplement to what you already do.

]]> By: Kenneth Stillman http://blog.davidrobinfilms.com/2009/11/04/event-filmmaking-event-photography-convergence/comment-page-1/#comment-52043 Kenneth Stillman Thu, 05 Nov 2009 06:54:59 +0000 http://blog.davidrobinfilms.com/?p=638#comment-52043 The biggest issue with doing both is that you will burn many bridges when it comes to networking. Not necessarily because wedding professionals are cut throat, but because we simply have to survive and our income can change dramatically from year to year without notice. I recommend many great photographers in my area when clients book and they haven't hired one yet, but I would never dream of recommending a photographer who offered video services as well. The client has no loyalty towards me. And they have no obligation to inform the photographers that i referred them. So a studio who offers video is going to try and get that video business as well. Why would I recommend a wedding professional who is essentially my competition? The biggest issue with doing both is that you will burn many bridges when it comes to networking. Not necessarily because wedding professionals are cut throat, but because we simply have to survive and our income can change dramatically from year to year without notice.

I recommend many great photographers in my area when clients book and they haven’t hired one yet, but I would never dream of recommending a photographer who offered video services as well. The client has no loyalty towards me. And they have no obligation to inform the photographers that i referred them. So a studio who offers video is going to try and get that video business as well. Why would I recommend a wedding professional who is essentially my competition?

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